A response from Mathathon

Mathathon Organizers: Alvan Arulandu, Sathvik Rodrothu, Caiman Moreno-Earle, Avni Garg, Brian Zhao.

On September 4th, we announced Mathathon, an event allocating compute credits across 100 teams of mathematicians tasked with solving and presenting an open problem in 40 hours. As of September 10th, we have received over a thousand applications from undergraduates, Ph.D. students, postdocs, and faculty at top research institutions in both the U.S. and abroad. 

A recent open letter raised serious concerns about whether the event could incentivize rushed, poorly understood mathematics, place verification burdens on the broader community, and amplify unhealthy incentives around AI-generated results. We think several of these concerns are valid, and our original public description did not adequately explain or, in some cases, adequately address them. We have therefore updated our public description and added additional requirements to second-round submissions.

We are writing this statement to clarify what we have done to address the community’s concerns. If successful, Mathathon will not be a list of 100 problems with convoluted solutions and occasional Lean verifications. Instead, it will be an experiment in what responsible AI usage for mathematics could look like, with the goal of preserving the culture of mathematics which we and so many others call home.

Who are we, and what do we believe?

The primary organizers of Mathathon are undergraduates, the majority of whom plan to pursue theoretical mathematics for the foreseeable future. We are personally invested in what the human mathematical experience should look like in an AI future. As such, we are committed to conducting our event with respect for existing academic communities. At the same time, we believe that preserving the spirit of mathematics requires experimentation with resource allocation and incentive structures. Mathathon is one such experiment.

Throughout the organizational process, we have consistently sought guidance from members of the mathematical community. They include graduate students, junior faculty members, and tenured professors. They include both AI-positive and AI-skeptic mathematicians. These discussions informed our responsible AI policies, including the 6-month verification period and the educational tracks. After the open letter and additional discussions with our faculty advisors, we are now making arXiv publication an explicit requirement for the verification period. 

Mathathon begins with a 40-hour period from October 30th to November 1st where teams use provided credits to produce an initial result. We will award additional AI credits to the most promising and well-explained solutions. 

However, we understand that it is unrealistic to expect participants to fully understand and internalize a novel result in just 40 hours. This is why Mathathon is structured in two rounds. Participants who produce results sufficient to warrant consideration by the math community—as determined by our judges—will progress to the second round. The second round, also known as the verification period, will take place over the next 6 months during which participants will produce an arXiv pre-print, a video presentation, and an auto-formalized solution. Our judges will evaluate them throughout this period, and we are awarding more prizes at the end. We are also hosting the educational track, in which participants produce course notes, video explainers, or more elegant proofs of existing theorems. 

This layout is inspired by existing structures in math academia and educational prizes, such as REUs, workshops, the Breakthrough Junior Challenge, and the Summer of Mathematical Exposition.

Against the “Slopification” of Mathematics

Firstly, the majority of our applicants so far are PhD students who have a proven record of quality mathematics publications. Secondly, guiding our decision to allow applications from all levels of the mathematical community—including undergraduates—is our belief that, to progress as a field, we must trust each individual to use resources responsibly. In particular, we are placing trust in our participants to refrain from releasing/uploading results until they have fully internalized and verified their work. We believe that the incentive structures of the competition support this goal. Participants are rewarded not for being the first to solve a problem, but for explaining their results, motivations, and techniques. 

We cannot guarantee that all work produced at this event will meet the mathematical community’s standards, but we are implementing the measures we can to mitigate that risk, and we welcome any community suggestions to further reduce that possibility.

Intrusion of Corporate Interest

We are grateful to have received over 2M compute credits from OpenAI and Anthropic along with support from DARPA expMath, Cognition, and other industry partners. Compute is a crucial catalyst for problem discovery, resolution, verification, presentation, and ultimately, the success of Mathathon. That being said, we understand that significant portions of the scientific community are concerned that the goals of major AI corporations do not necessarily align with the aims of scientific research. We see Mathathon as a step towards critically engaging these parties. Besides the goals of the event itself, we plan to host debates, fireside discussions, and panels between AI critics, supporters, and those in between.

Care for Young Mathematicians

As young mathematicians ourselves, we are well aware of the stress that the uncertain future of mathematics and academia bring. If anything, Mathathon aims to help early-career mathematicians in a time where access to compute resources asymmetrically favors established, well-funded researchers. Our 6-month second round encourages motivated participants to take their problem seriously, study it deeply, and leave with a better understanding of the material, just like existing REU programs or directed reading programs. With a steepening decline in Ph.D. applications for theoretical fields of study, events like Mathathon encourage young people to stay excited about mathematics, engage their interests with modern tools, and maintain hope in a confusing time. As for concerns that association with AI companies will negatively impact the reputations of theory-minded participants, we respect our applicants and the mathematical community’s ability to make the right decisions.

Misinformation about Research Mathematics

We take full responsibility for any public statements we put out that were wrong or misleading. We have retracted the question “what is the role of a mathematician when AI can solve conjectures faster” from our website. It was intended as a statement about a future possibility, but we have since realized that it could be interpreted to mean the present. To prevent this from recurring, we will ask our faculty advisors to review any future statements. It’s our first time running an event at this scale, and we are grateful for all the feedback we have received.

Receiving Feedback from the Community

To the best of our knowledge, we received three proposals from signatories of the letter before it was published. We responded as follow: 

  1. Add a track where participants create educational content about an existing theorem.
    • We are hosting this track and allocating to it a similar amount of prizes as our main track. 
  2. Require participants to publish their results on arXiv.
    • Participants should only publish after they have verified their results, checked their citations, and labelled their AI usage. We encourage them to take a few days after Mathathon to do this. We would require it if we can, but we can’t control their actions after the event. [Note: This policy has been updated to require publication in the verification round.]
  3. Invite a specific signatory to give a 10-to-30-minute speech during the opening ceremony.
    • We aim to finalize our speaking arrangements by the end of September. We haven’t assigned any speech / workshop slot to anyone. We will host panel discussions between AI-positive and AI-critical mathematicians. We welcome her as a speaker. But we cannot determine at this time whether she’ll be a headline speaker.

Mathathon is an experiment. We hope to learn whether substantial AI resources can be incorporated into mathematical research while preserving the values that make mathematics worth doing: understanding, attribution, openness, mentorship, and verification. We greatly appreciate the time taken by anyone who has given feedback regarding Mathathon, and we will keep working with them to improve this event. We will reach out to signatories of the letter to have a conversation about their concerns, and we will respond to feedback received through our email.

All organizers have signed the Leiden Declaration.


Received 10 September 2026.

51 responses to “A response from Mathathon”

  1. […] The Mathathon organizers have published a response, available here. […]

    1. 3 x Fields Medal Winner Avatar
      3 x Fields Medal Winner

      Mathematicians sat in their high chairs and thought AI would take the menial jobs first and they still have ample time left. But now that AI has started solving conjectures and math problems en masse, they are all of a sudden concerned about the dissemination and cultivation of knowledge. Bro go learn trades and help construct data centers.

      1. urelrata Avatar
        urelrata

        Professional mathematicians are not worried about their jobs being taken (they are mostly tenured professors) and they have *always* (not just now suddenly) being worried of dissemination of knowledge (a large portion of their duties being teaching, giving talks, and writing reviews). Furthermore, mathematicians were the ones who made computers and AI possible (along side with physicists and engineers). Your caricature of mathematicians is indicative of somebody who is very unfamiliar with their profession.

  2. always21d1b7305b Avatar
    always21d1b7305b

    Imagine organizers giving super strong performance-enhancing drugs for free to young athletes. They say access is unequal, there are safety rules, and nobody is forced to join. But in a brutally competitive field, refusing may mean falling behind or never making the team.

    When critics object, they promise better monitoring and panels with both enthusiasts and skeptics. Everything is open for debate except the experiment itself: creating pressure to use a powerful, poorly understood enhancer, then calling it free choice because nobody was formally forced.

    1. John Avatar
      John

      The only difference is that using drugs damage your body in an unrecovable way, and giving more AI tokens dont

      1. steph Avatar
        steph

        More AI tokens damages the environment and outside of your Caltech bubble, costs money.

      2. Hume Chang Avatar
        Hume Chang

        You may want to check out this paper https://arxiv.org/abs/2506.08872

        “While LLMs offer immediate convenience, our findings highlight potential cognitive costs. Over four months, LLM users consistently underperformed at neural, linguistic, and behavioral levels. These results raise concerns about the long-term educational implications of LLM reliance and underscore the need for deeper inquiry into AI’s role in learning.”

  3. Andrew Barsky Avatar
    Andrew Barsky

    The only proper way to address the concerns in the open letter would be to cancel the mathathon. You have not, actually, addressed any of the issues raised; you merely added the appearance of an additional check in order to try and clear your own consciences.

    1. Lean 5 Mode Avatar
      Lean 5 Mode

      Now, that seems a little closed-minded, doesn’t it? The *only* way to resolve those concerns is to cancel the whole event? Doesn’t that mean you’re committed to rejecting any possible solution without even hearing it out?

  4. Pablo Shmerkin Avatar
    Pablo Shmerkin

    These are tiny cosmetic improvements to a fundamentally flawed concept. You’re still encouraging one-shotting results, with verification and digestion to possibly follow after (and largely optional), and with support of the companies that are destroying the mathematics commons. You write “we are committed to conducting our event with respect for existing academic communities”. The only way to honour that commitment is to cancel the Mathaton.

  5. Gergely Polish Avatar
    Gergely Polish

    You organisers have great future prospects in PR/HR/Politics.

    1. Steve Larson Avatar
      Steve Larson

      Or they just got AI to come up with and write a fitting PR response. It’s impossible to tell…

  6. […] Open Letter about the Mathathon, Sep 10 2026 (see also this response from the organizers) […]

  7. just different Avatar

    I have a question: Brian Zhao said on X that you were “working with profs to ensure AI is used responsibly.” Who are these professors and what does “working with” mean?

  8. Tarik Aougab Avatar
    Tarik Aougab

    Might I offer an alternative proposal? You are right now having to contend with two different debates, one regarding the role of AI technology *of any kind* in mathematics research, and another regarding the inappropriate control over the trajectory of mathematics that we cede to corporations when we agree to participate in their marketing campaigns. If you’re genuinely interested in AI and the ways in which it could be helpful for mathematics, I think you’d find yourselves with much more support from the community if you redesigned your event in such a way that decouples it from OpenAI and Anthropic. Instead of using their tokens to hunt down open problems – an increasingly finite resource in the community that is essential for developing human understanding – you could host a hack-a-thon dedicated to designing an open source small language model tailored to research level mathematics. That would be something that might actually benefit the community, loosen the stranglehold these companies are on pace to possess over our workflows, and it would still address the desire of students to explore with AI.

    1. just different Avatar

      Excellent idea, which I’m willing to bet won’t happen, because it can safely be inferred that the real point of this event is advertising and recruiting for AI companies.

    2. Brian Zhao Avatar
      Brian Zhao

      Thanks for this proposal! We are talking with GPU providers. We really hope OSS models will be an option.
      The problem with just OSS models is that their math capability lag behind proprietary models. Before the letter, our position was to offer all options and let our participants decide. We also planned to host a track that reward participants who exclusively use OSS models.
      We are changing a lot of things now, so happy to revisit this. Do you have a proposal for what standards our sponsors should meet?

  9. Nilima Nigam Avatar

    Dear organizers,
    I’ve signed the open letter arguing against this event.

    Let me applaud your desire to experiment, and for your stated motivation of providing hope to younger students in these uncertain/difficult/unclear times. This is positive.

    Regrettably, the experiment itself is flawed (you’re seeing many responses and reactions indicating why). Rather than rehash these, let me point to one of the contest rules:

    “Final deliverables for Round 2 are an arXiv preprint, a video presentation, and a formalized submission

    In fact, there is no *blanket guarantee* that submissions to the arXiV are actually posted on the arXiV. So it is feasible for some team to be selected for Round 1, but be unable to complete Round 2.

    The arXiV is a wonderful resource for research mathematicians, and it ought to be! When a preprint is submitted there, it is a tacit ‘ask’ of our colleagues to please dedicate their (un-renumerated, volunteer) time to to read and understand the submission. I personally do not think it is a place for such contest entries, since these may be of variable quality. For example, the long-running Math Contest in Modeling competitions do not ask for arXiV submissions.

    Our community is already struggling to read the huge numbers of submissions of late. I don’t understand why an arXiV preprint stipulation is needed for your contest, you risk contributing in real ways to the ‘slopification’ of a valuable community resource.

    1. Nilima Nigam Avatar

      “So it is feasible for some team to be selected for Round 1, but be unable to complete Round 2” should be corrected to be clearer:

      “So it is feasible for some team to be selected for Round 2, but be unable to complete the Round.”

    2. Brian Zhao Avatar
      Brian Zhao

      The open letter explicitly called for arXiv preprint to be a requirement. We added it in response. Happy to revise it if the community disagrees.

      Our position has always been that “Participants should only publish after they have verified their results, checked their citations, and labelled their AI usage.”

      1. Nilima Nigam Avatar

        I believe the phrasing in the open letter encourages a public preprint *after* the contest is over, which I interpret as ‘winners should prepare a preprint’. I’d agree with this formulation, since winning this contest (hopefully) implies a lower bound on the quality of the work and the exposition.

        In any event, prior to linking a contest to a community resource like the arXiV, it is a good idea to look through the policies of the preprint server.
        https://info.arxiv.org/help/policies/index.html

      2. Brian Zhao Avatar
        Brian Zhao

        Agreed. We discourage preprint during round 1 (40 hours). We require 1 (and only 1) preprint during round 2 (6 months). We ask our participants to follow the policies of arXiv.

  10. Elsa Avatar
    Elsa

    Thank you for taking the time to respond. I personally have a few questions:

    What motivates the offer of compute credits over traditional cash prizes?

    Which REUs did you refer to in your research, and how did you go about the research process overall? Furthermore, good REU questions are chosen over countless months of careful review, and difficult to find — how did you find your question?

    Could you elaborate more on what “welcoming both sides of the debate” looks like in practice, especially for choosing speakers. How are speakers vetted without bias, and by whom? What is your proposed balance of “AI-forward” speakers vs. “AI-skeptics.”

    Could you say more on the steps you are taking to prevent industry/academic bias, as your sponsors are primarily corporate entities, lacking traditional “academia-focused” sponsors of conferences, workshops, and REUs in math?

    Who was consulted in the creation of the judging rubric? How do you plan on choosing a diverse collection of judges, in whatever form of that descriptor may be appropriate?

    What is your plan to safeguard proper academic ethics and accreditation? Is there a plan in place to verify “novelty” of the results presented, so that the work of another mathematician is not unknowingly scraped and plagiarized? (This harms more than just the researcher who is plagiarized, as an undergraduate student participant also risks unknowingly harming their reputation, early on).

    Even if results pass the judge panel, many will want to submit their work to journals. What is your plan for ensuring there is not an overwhelming workload placed on referees, whom did not volunteer to review this volume of results as the judges have?

    1. Brian Zhao Avatar
      Brian Zhao

      1. There are a lot of regulations around paying people cash. We are doing the paperwork. If approved, we will give out cash prizes to participants and honoraria to judges.
      2. We expect participants to come with a question in mind. They are allowed to work on it before the event.
      3. We try to select as diverse a set of speakers as possible based on their public statements about AI-for-math. Unfort we don’t have a rigorous process in mind. Would love to hear your suggestion.
      4. Neither our decision making process nor our main track judging process involve representatives from our sponsors.
      5. We met individually with over 20 professors at Caltech and other institutes. Our judging rubric is also open for public comments. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wIbtoj6yTGUlhbCkoLYs_pUPJUti8AXjXJXp3rWm-nA/edit?tab=t.0
      5. We divide math into 7 fields and try to make sure each field has at least 3 judges. We also ask existing judges what subfields need more judges.
      6. AI is good at finding attributions if you explicitly prompt it to do so. Our judges will also check that the citations are accurate.
      7. We have 100 teams, and each team is limited to 1 result. Even if all teams succeed, I don’t think it’s a significant number.

      1. steph Avatar
        steph

        You are giving judges the equivalent of what can be a year’s worth of papers to referee in only a few hours? There will be around 5 submissions to review per judge?

    2. Brian Zhao Avatar
      Brian Zhao

      Regarding academia-focused sponsors, we reached out to a large number of them. Unfortunately, most of them don’t sponsor events like this. The rest are still reviewinig our grant applications. We hope that some of them will say yes soon, and I’d love to work with them to improve this event.

      1. steph Avatar
        steph

        This seems like a great time to review item 10 of the Leiden Declaration.

  11. Nexsai Avatar
    Nexsai

    This response does not answer the objection in the open letter.

    The problem is not the tool. The problem is the two companies supplying the compute, companies currently converting isolated benchmark wins into a public narrative of dominance over an entire field. That narrative does not require a single participant to act in bad faith. It only requires the event to happen, under this sponsorship, with this press cycle attached. Every write-up, positive or critical, becomes more proof that OpenAI and Anthropic are the ones who get to decide what counts as progress in mathematics now. The open letter itself is already being absorbed into that story.

    Your response to this, under “Intrusion of Corporate Interest,” is that you are grateful for the credits, that you understand the concern, and that you see the event as a way to critically engage these companies through panels and debates. That is not engagement with a conflict of interest. It is a way of scheduling the conflict of interest as one more session on the program. Nowhere in your response do you say why the compute has to come from OpenAI and Anthropic specifically, the same companies whose public conduct the letter cites as research misconduct, rather than from a university, a neutral funder, or open weight models run locally, which would not leave the event’s legitimacy dependent on the goodwill of the parties it is supposedly holding accountable. That question is not raised once.

    Everywhere else, the same move repeats. On slopification, the answer is that most applicants are PhD students and you trust participants to act responsibly. On reputational risk to young mathematicians, the answer is that you respect their ability to make the right decision for themselves. Both are answers about what individuals will do with the tools. Neither is an answer about who gets to sponsor the tools, or why a research community should let two commercially interested firms underwrite its own prestige economy. That choice is made before a single participant opens a laptop, and no amount of individual good conduct afterward changes who made it or why.

    If this is meant to be an experiment in what responsible AI use in mathematics looks like, the experiment has to include the option of not taking money from the companies the field itself is accusing of misconduct. Otherwise this is not a test of responsible use. It is a test of how much branding a math community will absorb in exchange for free compute, and how quickly the rest of the field follows once the first one goes unchallenged. That is what the letter was trying to stop before it becomes the standard shape of these events.

  12. eric Avatar
    eric

    One (perhaps misguided) objection I have regarding this “mathathon” is that its “mathematical” component and “AI” component feel completely disparate. The mathematical component is learning and presenting about a problem / solution you do not yet know. But people have been doing this forever, and I am not sure what mathematical value is brought when, in the context of the “mathathon”, this solution is replaced by one which is AI generated. It seems like thus this mathathon consists roughly of two disparate components:
    1) The first component uses AIs to one-shot problems, generating headlines for AI companies and producing mathematical results which may be built on plagiarized work;
    2) The second component digests the results of 1), though this mathematical exercise could have been done without the existence of 1) anyways.
    So 2) seems like it is cleaning up the mess made by 1), which did not need to happen in the first place.
    I too am supportive of experimenting with an age of mathematics and AI, and I think that the idea of a conference where we can discuss manners for mathematicians to coexist with AI (without the presence / funding of AI companies) could be very useful. Yet I think as it stands, this “mathathon” is a very destructive activity. (Perhaps if you organize a math + AI conference, things will go much better, but please let Anthropic, OpenAI, and such related companies take no part in it).

    I am also further worried that this “mathathon” will simply turn into a recruiting opportunity for AI companies. It is hard to understate how dangerous this is (and how irresponsible it would be to say such opportunities would solely be the faults of the contestants), especially given that we are in a time where AI capabilities are being advanced so irresponsibly. I would hope that if we have a major student conference for math + AI, that such student conferences are not influenced by the voices and desires of these AI companies.

    1. Brian Zhao Avatar
      Brian Zhao

      Thanks for this thoughtful response!
      I believe digesting AI proofs is fundamentally different from digesting humans proofs. If you don’t understand something, you can ask it to rephrase. If you notice a mistake, you wait minutes, not days, for a correction. etc. A large part of the skillset will transfer, but not necessarily all.
      I can be wrong. This event is an experiment to study what changes AI-assisted math would introduce, and no one knows the answer.
      Regarding sponsors, our decision making and main track judging processes are isolated from them. They don’t have representatives on our board or judging committee. So far, all of our decisions are informed by either feedback from the math community or logistical constraints.
      It’s true that we are benefiting our sponsors through PR / recruiting. We don’t think it has to be a zero sum game. We are re-evaluating our sponsors and welcome community feedback on this.

      1. eric Avatar
        eric

        Ok, thanks for the response. I think it is valid to consider the possibility that digesting AI proofs may be different from digesting human proofs (though again, I would prefer if such distinctions were examined in the context of a math conference, not an event designed like this mathathon, for other reasons I have already illustrated.).

        I nevertheless still worry that this will become simply a recruiting event with math on the side. I have heard many concerning reports that at my home university, the vast majority of applicants are computer science undergraduates looking for a recruitment opportunity. Of course, you have some leverage over who may be admitted to this event, so I hope that at the very least you pick applicants who are participating because they would like to do some math, not because they want to join the AI capabilities race (which is, in my opinion, destroying both the math community and the world as a whole).

  13. djmati11 Avatar
    djmati11

    There’s nothing wrong with the mathathon event. It’s a nice opportunity to experiment with AI in the rapidly changing mathematical landscape. Of course some, or even majority of people will probably mindlessly prompt the AI and neither learn anything nor produce anything valuable. Such is life and certainly this is inherent to any hackathon-type events. So what? At worst it’s a harmless waste of time and tokens. The letter really stretches itself thin to claim this is “dangerous”.

    1. Bangxin Wang Avatar
      Bangxin Wang

      This represents a clear commercial encroachment into our community, incentivising a rushed, unverified, and superficial approach to mathematics. The organisers state their judging criterion as score = understanding × impact + verification. Yet, in mathematics, what does “understanding” even mean without human verification? And who should or who can judge the “impact”? While this is the first Mathathon, if it proceeds unchallenged, I imagine we will see a hundred more happening all around the world this year. If these events become daily, there is a very real danger that this irresponsible, storytelling-style methodology will threaten the values and traditions that our community has long revered and upheld.

      1. steph Avatar
        steph

        It does seem like the organizers should review point 10 of the Leiden Declaration.

  14. Radek Washmade Avatar

    We are in crisis. We have always been.

    I am only a math enthusiast. I am unlikely to participate in the competition, but I appreciate your approach. I was directed here from the “other” letter opposing the mathathon and chose to respond.

    Nobody has objected to countless “hackathons” sponsored by wealthy companies with pure and vested interests. Why should anybody object to an experiment that brings hackathons to mathematics?

    Is mathematics different from other human pursuits in rejecting such means, or do new results fueled by artificial competitions matter to its practitioners in a time of crisis?

    The answer may be, “it depends.”

    On the one hand, this feels like unnecessary competition. Although many, many of us are competitive and get a kick out of the prospect of winning competitions (beating others or beating conjectures), are we taking this too far? On the other hand, it appears that the excitement the mathathon brings is essential. We have all seen math PhD memes! It may also force reluctant math PhDs to finally learn the goddamn AI tools.

    Suppose this experiment succeeds (notwithstanding the lack of a definition of success). Then, won’t only the lure of winning competitions or finding new results within a stipulated time limit motivate mathematicians? Won’t the need for such extrinsic motivation actually hurt research? Or are the “rules of the long game” now changing?

    The drive to compete is strong in animals. The drive for artistic pursuit, however, may only be found in humans. What about mathematicians who consider mathematics a creative pursuit? In the AI-age, they are doomed not because they are incapable, but because competing at all costs is not their preference. If such competitions become the norm, they may become even more demotivated. Are you telling these people to not bother applying?

    Math Olympiads and other competitions in the life of a budding mathematician are well accepted. But is making competition part of the normal lives of math PhDs, postdocs, and researchers needed to address the challenge posed by AI-assisted mathematics? (Max Weinreich calls such mathematics artificial mathematics.)

    Many people compare mathematics to music. Perhaps music is not as unreasonably effective as mathematics in explaining the laws of nature, but if this were to happen to the generation of new music (because, you know, we are on an AI-superhighway everywhere now), would we approve it?

    I am not even going into why only AI companies are sponsoring this event. They would have been ready to sponsor it on your one-line email to them. To you, it might have looked like a win-win situation: we get the ‘compute’ and event expenses, and they get the good PR and good prospective hires!

    Thank you for letting me voice my concerns. Good luck!

  15. Alexander Avatar
    Alexander

    It’s disgusting how established scientists have attacked young people, simply because they are afraid for their jobs. Stop using calculators and computers, you damn Luddites.

    1. Pablo Shmerkin Avatar
      Pablo Shmerkin

      A substantial proportion of signatories are students themselves. I’m not afraid of losing my job; I’m tenured (however, it is absolutely normal and valid for people to be afraid of losing their jobs). I’m afraid of the future of mathematics as a cultural product of humanity.

    2. lohn_jennon Avatar
      lohn_jennon

      Dear Alexander,
      Since you seem to love AI so much and use the word ‘Luddite’ as an insult, I thought I would paste the Google AI definition of a Luddite here.

      `Luddites were 19th-century English textile workers who destroyed industrial machinery to protest low wages and unsafe working conditions. [1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddites)’

      Please tell me what part of the definition do you perceive as an insult? Are you sure you are insulting the mathematicians who signed the letter by calling them Luddites?

      1. John_Lemon Avatar
        John_Lemon

        Did Luddites succeded?

        1. lohn_jennon Avatar
          lohn_jennon

          Dear John,

          The Luddites were one of the first labour movements.
          Labour movements are still around (even in universities in the form of Unions) and have protected worker rights through the centuries.

          What exactly is your point?

          Best wishes,
          Lohn

  16. Pierre Menard, Author of the Quixote Avatar
    Pierre Menard, Author of the Quixote

    “The primary organizers of Mathathon are undergraduates”, a sufficient reason halt this abomination.

  17. lohn_jennon Avatar
    lohn_jennon

    Dear Organizers,

    I think you should not take the overwhelming support of the open letter personally. For most mathematicians, including me, the protest is against OpenAI and Anthropic and not really against you guys. I think you just had the bad luck doing a thing the community found distasteful after the Navier–Stokes incidence, and doing it with the very people the community judged to be complicit in the aforementioned activity.

    In any case, I think you are slightly in over your head (and I don’t mean to be disparaging, it is just how the tides of time have turned). It is probably a good idea to at least reflect on the long term consequences of going ahead with this.

    Best wishes,
    Lohn

    1. Brian Zhao Avatar
      Brian Zhao

      Thanks, Lohn. We aren’t taking the letter personally. We think it raises real concerns about our event, and we should engage more with the community to determine how to run it responsibly. Do you want to chat more? You can find our emails linked to our names.

      1. lohn_jennon Avatar
        lohn_jennon

        Dear Brian,

        Thanks for your response.

        ‘Do you want to chat more?’

        Thanks for the offer, I don’t think I have anything more to say beyond what follows.

        As indicated in my original comment, I think the overwhelming (and mostly emotional) response to your mathathon at this moment, is bigger than your mathathon.

        More precisely, I think your mathathon (along with the Navier—Stokes controversy) became a rallying point for organised protests by mathematicians (and there are some *serious* people on the list of signatories) against the aforementioned companies, and now I don’t think discussions on the specific points of the event itself is going to achieve much.

        If anything, I would suggest that postponing the event until some sort of agreement is reached between mathematicians and the LLM companies.

        Otherwise, you risk becoming a symbol for the protests to be aimed at, and I am not sure that it is a very fruitful thing for you to be (as you are all very young and should not invite unnecessary stress).

        Best wishes,
        Lohn

  18. Yilin Wang Avatar

    Dear organizers,

    I admire your efforts in taking initiatives and trying to experiment with the technology. You are the future, the responsibility of continuing the pursuite of mathematical beauty and caring for the field (perhaps in its evolved form) will eventually be laid upon you.

    Let me explain one point, that is implicit from the open letter but may not be obvious to younger people: A good open question is very precious. I am not speaking about big famous problem like Navier Stokes, but perhaps the ones you may find for your Mathathon.

    When you do research (at least in the traditional way) you will realize that, most of the questions that one comes up would either be trivial, or not that interesting, or way too hard. Finding an interesting problem that many people would also care about, not just incremental nor completely unreachable, needs a lot of vision and insight. It does not happen every day. Finding them is already a big step in the research. People who pose it, cherish it as well.

    We share it openly and label it as an open question, is a nice gift to the community. We also hope that people who try it, also learn about where it comes from, which then make them learn the subject and the field that we appreciate and dedicate so much of our energy to. Even if they don’t succeed, the knowledge is transmitted to them. Moreover, they may come up with other insights and many other people will still try it. The solution itself is nice, but the attempts, ideas people developed around it, the collaborations it generated in an open, respectful, and fair environment, are really something we treasure and which eventually make the field flourish.

    Sometimes you also see counterproductive behavior, such as people making some progress on an open problem, but would not jump immediately to solve it, but check with the person who posed it or other people in the field. If we notice competition with other group, we may try to collaborate instead of compete. It is not really needed, and does not always happen like that, but many of us do, just to keep the community healthy and open.

    Now seeing AI brute force a solution with immense compute, skipping the transmission chain, the discussions, the attempts, and spoiling the goodwill we dedicated to the community with the openness of sharing our questions, is hard to take. At least, it was not the intention when the open questions were posed at the first place. The transition will happen, the field will change, not sure how, very possibly, the openness will be gone.

    I am not offering any advice or suggestion, but hope this will make you understand a little better where some of the anger comes from. It is not against you personally, it is some nostalgia for the long tradition of intellectual pursuite and openness and some shock about the disruptive behavior of AI companies. Definitely many conversations need to happen, if they ever care.

    Best regards,
    Yilin

    1. steph Avatar
      steph

      Why not hold the event remotely? If time is such of the essence that standard academic conference funding sources’ grant review processes are too slow, why hold an in-person event at all? And we are engaging in valuable discourse right here on this forum. Why privilege a relative few to travel to Pasadena to form teams, meet in-person, and have “fireside chats” about the future of AI in math?

      1. steph Avatar
        steph

        That is, if “the old ways” are only sentimental nonsense and nostalgia, why host such an event at all except as a recruitment event for AI companies masquerading as an academic conference?

  19. Lean 5 Mode Avatar
    Lean 5 Mode

    As a student of theoretical physics (but with a somewhat mathematical background), I want to share my thoughts, since I haven’t seen much discussion about the nuances of how this affects different mathematical specialties. I think events of this kind are brilliant, illuminating, and absolutely necessary to get a grip on how physics research will function in the near future. Unlike pure mathematics, theoretical physics has the property that the truth value of any relevant mathematical proposition carries a large amount of information, and knowing this truth value alone substantially progresses the field.

    Examples of this phenomenon include the Bell-Kochen-Specker theorem or the Coleman-Mandula theorem. Most physicists I know can’t even make the precise mathematical statements of these theorems, much less prove them rigorously (that’s partly because what you want them to say can sometimes depend on a specific choice of mathematical framework). And yet, these are some of the most influential results implicitly in use during day-to-day research, since their truth values alone give us a very high level understanding about what we should or shouldn’t look for in a theoretical framework.

    A more down-to-earth example is numerical simulation. For almost a century, a substantial amount of understanding has been gained in theoretical physics from simulations, ranging from evidence of nontrivial quantum field theories to the existence of phase transitions in exotic materials. In this context, a Lean-verified proof encountered during research is just a fancier numerical data point whose content requires more effort to extract. Any research project generates several such points, with some making it into the “plot” of the paper, and some that were not possible to resolve with enough precision. The next paper will then try to recreate the same data points to calibrate their work, before tackling the unresolved points. This analogy ultimately leads to what feels to me like the main tension that mathematicians are currently experiencing, but which is largely absent from theoretical physics: math prizes credit the individual who fills in the last detail, whereas physics prizes credit the first individual who understands the answer.

    I know many mathematicians will take objection to the use of the term “understands” in the previous sentence, given that those physicists might actually be wrong from time to time—I particularly like the way Scott Aaronson puts it: “If we were physicists, we would have already declared P!=NP as a law of nature and given ourselves Nobel prizes. If we were to later discover we were wrong, we would then just give ourselves more Nobel prizes!” And I may be biased here, since my transition from math to physics was partly fueled by actively looking for this mechanism, but I feel as if mathematicians’ underlying concerns can only be resolved by embracing that proofs are not the ultimate knowledge state. I’m not sure how close the mathematical community is to putting that kind of incentive structure in place, but I imagine it is considered extremely unsatisfying by today’s standards, because it might mean awarding a prize to a much later (but more inspired) proof of an already-solved problem, rather than its very first proof.

    To conclude what has already become an absurdly long essay, let me just add one more emotional speculation: maybe, as historic as was the conception of “axioms” and “proofs” during the time of Euclid and Archimedes, mathematics is now due for a phase change that elevates us beyond this proof-aspiring era that lasted 2000+ years.

  20. steph Avatar
    steph

    Will participants need to pay taxes on AI credits issued as part of the competition? Your website advertises huge monetary sums of AI credits which correspond to non-monetary compensation/income. That value is real and seems taxable.

    1. steph Avatar
      steph

      Also, if organizers are able to participate, that means that they are receiving non-monetary compensation equivalent to a large monetary sum. That seems like an undisclosed conflict of interest. The phrasing “the organizers receive no monetary compensation from mathathon or its sponsors” on your website seems, at best, a serious misunderstanding and, at worst, willfully deceptive.

      1. steph Avatar
        steph

        Apparently recipients do not need to pay taxes on credits given as part of a promotional marketing campaign. And this is a promotional marketing campaign that you are facilitating on behalf of these companies so I withdraw my question about taxes.

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